I took the liberty and renamed the article to 'Garth', based on this script [1] which seems to me to be final and not an early version

on changing from Fedora to Garth Edit

while the name is in the script - the name is not heard (at least i haven't heard it on the DVD, and it does not appear in the subtitles). since the role is credited as "Fedora" (and listed in the script as Fedora), i vote to keep it Fedora, and make Garth just a re-direct, because Fedora is the name that more people are likely to use when referring to the character. also, that script ( has occasional typos in it. Jawajames 17:08, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

i asked Pablo Hidalgo about "Garth" (and "Alfred" as the name of another of the bandits), and the names do not appear in the script in the LFL Archives ("4th Revisions, May 8, 1988"). the script found online may not be a final copy or may lack legitimacy. Jawajames 02:41, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

The article mentions that he appears as "Jake" in one of those German books. Since they are totally canon and authorized, shouldn't we settle on his name now? MoffRebus 08:10, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

  • Might not be totally but yes. If that's his name that should be the article, it's up to whomever wants to move it then change all the Fedora (individual)s to Jake. ;) Vetinari (Appointment) 19:50, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
    • Did so... too bad nobody seems to have read the German book to add further information. MoffRebus 22:46, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
      • If no one can verify the info in these German books, should we be making the move and related changes? jSarek 01:33, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
        • Depends what you mean 'verify'. Already somebody mentioned (verified?) that he appears in that book. Also the book article mentions Jake/Fedora among the characters. I don't know if by 'verify' you mean that this somebody was reliable or not. MoffRebus 09:08, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
          • Yes, by verify I mean get the information from a reliable source; it's relatively easy for someone to claim something is in a foreign language book. Wookieepedia had "Khameir Sarin" as a name for Darth Maul for a long time on the basis of a claim that the name made it into an Italian novelization of Episode One. Also, we should verify that the books are authorized by Lucasfilm, since apparently some foreign language books weren't. jSarek 09:29, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
            • As for the second part, please look here MoffRebus 10:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
              • Fair enough, though it looks like Leland is having some of the same problems we are in making these German (and French) books tie in with continuity. Still, I'd like to see this cited either by someone we can trust, or by several someones independently, or by scanned/photographed evidence. Not saying we should necessarily move it back until then, but . . . solid verification would be nice. jSarek 10:49, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Fedora or Jake?Edit

Okay, I pulled out my copy of Indiana Jones und das Verschwundene Volk, and found the relevant passage on page 236:

Es war Jake, das Halbblut! Derselbe Mann, auf den Indiana schon einmal getroffen war, vor ewig langer Zeit und an einem anderen Ort, aber in einer Situation, die dieser hier nicht einmal so unähnlich war. Damals hatte Indiana Jake und seine Kumpane überrascht, als sie ein Grab mit dem berühmten Kreuz von Coronado plündern wollten. Und es war vielleicht das erste Mal gewesen, daß Indiana einen Vorgeschmack auf das bekommen hatte, was später einmal sein Leben bestimmen sollte.
Dieser Mann hatte ihm seine erste große Niederlage beigebracht. Aber er hatte sein Leben auch verändert, vielleicht mehr als jeder andere vor und nach ihm...

My amateur translation, pieced together from various online translation tools:

It was Jake, the Half-Breed! The same man, whom Indy would recognize anywhere, from a long time ago and another place, but in a situation not dissimilar to this one. At the time, Indiana surprised Jake and his cronies while they were looting a grave containing the famous Cross of Coronado. And it was perhaps the first time that Indiana received a taste of what his life would later become.
This man had taught Indy his first major defeat. But it had also changed his life, perhaps more than any other before or after it...

The first thing that jumped out at me is the use of the term "half-breed," as one of the bandits at the beginning of Last Crusade is known as Half Breed; so Jake probably refers to him. But I'm not a German expert, and it seems a lot hinges on how that last sentence is translated. It could be

  • "But it [Indy's first defeat] had also changed his life, perhaps more than any other before or after it," as above, but it could also be
  • "But he [Jake] had also changed his life, perhaps more than any other before or after him."

If it's the latter, that would seem to describe Fedora, not Half Breed; then again, there's no evidence that the "half-breed" description applies to Fedora. What do you all think? Any native German speakers out there? Icybro 23:47, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Seems the sensible thing would to be to establish Half Breed as Jake, Fedora as Garth, and Rough Rider as Alfred. What's the context for the Hohlbein meeting? Vetinari (Appointment) 18:08, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
Yes it seems logical to mee too although I am not German... perhaps we should rename Half Breed to Jake too? MoffRebus 07:52, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Well I was talking in terms of retcons if one was needed. Shouldn't move Half Breed/Glasses until in can be confirmed. ;) Vetinari (Appointment) 23:05, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Since LFL's script doesn't mention Garth or Alfred, i don't think we should use them unless someone can produce an official product that lists their names. a script on the internet really doesn't cut it, to me, since whoever was first to put it up could have added their own fanon. anyone have a copy of the official screenplay? link to amazon Jawajames 23:46, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

The Garth and Alfred are both said in the movie, the Windham junior novel has them as well. Vetinari (Appointment) 00:11, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
I never noticed the mentions in the movie (generally if it's in the subtitles, it counts, or else we might end up with a SW-ANH: "Carrie!" vs "Hey" thing. it just seems odd that the script that Pablo looked at didn't mention either name. but good enough with it being in the junior novelization. I wonder if Windham used the internet script ;) Jawajames 00:44, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
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