Talk:Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine: Prima's Official Strategy Guide

Some thoughts on whether this title should appear in the "Sources" list or "Appearances" list (e.g. in the Henry Walton Jones, Sr. article...

As a general rule, original stories like Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom should be listed under Appearances, while pure reference material like Indiana Jones: The Ultimate Guide should be listed under Sources. (Now, there are titles that have no original narrative component, like Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (novel) and Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (TSR), which need to be categorized as either Appearances or Sources; but those considerations are not relevant to this discussion.)

Some titles that are usually thought of as reference books—such as this book, and a number of the RPG sourcebooks—contain short original stories among the reference material. In these cases, the rule above still applies. If a character is mentioned in the reference material, then the title should be listed under Sources; if the character appears in the short story, then the title should be listed under Appearances, with some sort of clarification that specifies the story component of the title.

Whether or not we create a separate article for each such short story is another issue entirely. --Icybro 13:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

• But it's always been grouped by the material as a whole. It's a reference book that just happens to have in-universe infomation making it a source. If the "Mid-Atlantic, April 1916" wasn't a seperate page then the magazine would be down as a source on the jackal headpiece page etc. Vetinari (Appointment) 13:25, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
  • It is 100% irrelevant whether the listed entry has a dedicated article or not. Stories belong under Appearances; everything else belongs under Sources. Now, as I mentioned earlier, there may be some gray areas (e.g. reference-heavy role-playing game adaptations of the movies, for example—do they count as stories?), but this isn't one of them. The introductory story in this book is most definitely a story, so it should be listed under Appearances. If the reference material portion of the book had additional pertinent info about Henry, then it would be appropriate to list the book under Sources and Appearances. --Icybro 00:06, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
    • No, it wouldn't, it's one or the other, that's the point of differentiating between the fiction and reference material in the first place. Yes, it's a story — as are several of the RPG introductions — but the article is a reference book, which have/are always listed as sources. Putting a strategy guide in the Appearances list is saying that the item as a whole is narrative with or without C templates. Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine: Prima's Official Strategy Guide is not a story, it just happens to contain one. I thought I was the one who made things more complicated than they need to be! :p Vetinari^{(Appointment)} 20:20, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
      • If Henry Jones appears or is mentioned in the fiction in the strategy guide, then it should be listed as an appearance. if he is mentioned in the out-of-universe portion of the guide, then it should be listed as a source. it could be that both mention him, in which case it would be listed under both. when a document contains both source material and fiction material, the article for its page should be clear that the list of appearances and such is for the fiction material only. this gets muddled somewhat even more when the source material is designed to be fictional (such as the grail diary game doc and the Lost Journal) - i've always had issues with them being Sources and not Appearances, since their intent is to be in-universe documents) Jawajames 00:51, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
        • I still disagree, especially when it comes to listing both... Though the Lost Journal and Grail Diary are sources because they aren't narrative, and no character appears in them anyway except by mention or picture. Vetinari^{(Appointment)} 18:01, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
          • Although I wouldn't mind both if they were seperate listings. Like the Star Wars Adventure Journal information on Wookieepedia which has both short stories and articles with reference material. Vetinari^{(Appointment)} 18:09, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
            • Your reasoning on this is backwards. You're advocating the position that our wiki structure (e.g. whether this title gets two articles or one) should dictate the related content (whether to list this title in Sources or Appearances). In fact, it's the content that should dictate the structure. Now, I'm not saying that the introductory story shouldn't have it's own article—maybe it does, but that's a separate debate. Either way, the story portion of this book should be listed under Appearances. (And I'm not trying to make things complicated: "stories belong under Appearances" is a very simple rule.) --Icybro 13:52, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
              • My argument is that, yes, stories = Appearances, reference material = Sources but the item: Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine: Prima's Official Strategy Guide is not a story, it is a reference book, which are listed as sources and always have been. The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles (magazine) doesn't get listed in Appearances either and that has two stories in it. Thornton N. Thornton VI is mentioned in Gypsy Revenge's Historical Notes. Doesn't make the book a source listing aswell. Like I said, I disagree. Vetinari^{(Appointment)} 20:09, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
                • You're right, of course, that this title is primarily a reference book. But nobody is suggesting that we should list Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine: Prima's Official Strategy Guide without any additional qualifiers under Appearances. Instead, we're saying that the story portion of this book should be listed under Appearances, just as the story portions of the Young Indy Magazine are listed under Appearances. "Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine: Prima's Official Strategy Guide (introductory story)" is a perfectly valid way of specifying the story portion. (After some thought, I would agree that Gypsy Revenge should probably not be listed as both an Appearance and a Source for Thornton M. Thornton. That's a bit of a different situation, though.)--Icybro 04:19, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
                  • This calls for a "Barnett College, 1947" article! ;) Vetinari^{(Appointment)} 15:47, 1 July 2009 (UTC)